While the 2018 APL survey is ongoing, we thought it worthwhile to post some responses to the comments that have been provided so far. Many thanks to those who have given us feedback; we do appreciate it. So, if you have already contributed, the response to your comment/question is here. Happy to take further questions of course, either by the survey or directly.
Fields and Field Access
“Need more fields so there are less byes.”
The APLC requests more fields from Parks Victoria every year, with a desire to get fields all year round. The Park is at capacity with most clubs wanting more fields. Until changes are implemented at Albert Park — like the proposal to reduce the size of the golf course — no further fields are available. We constantly ask.
“I’ve stopped playing league due to turf and cost, grass is much nicer.”
Having made the previous comment, we have recently managed to secure Fields 14 and 15 on Wednesdays for winter, meaning we have the fields opposite the pit buildings throughout the year, when the Grand Prix is not happening. The APLC wants input from everyone on how to best use these fields: grass fields with enough space for four fields. Please let a committee member know your ideas (or join the APLC!).
“more opportunities for men’s Ultimate occasionally would be good.”
Happy to take that on board. Our issue is that the APLC is a bunch of volunteers, and we need people who want to direct such activities to step up. We have limited capacity.
“And it’s superficial but could Parks Vic provide a clock tower or something?”
We can ask!
Times and Time Slots
“Its been ok however the extra team in div 3 has really stuffed the league up as we pay the same for less games :\”
Sorry: that’s not correct. Every team played the same number of games in Season 1, regardless of division (Divisions 1 and 2 had a nine team round robin plus finals, Division 3 had a ten team round robin). The limited field access due to the Grand Prix and holidays is reflected in the season price. Division 3 had more games scheduled prior to the final week. Raph works very hard on that. The notification we received on field availability meant byes were a bit weird.
“I wonder if we could make it 60 minute games. 8.50 is such a late time slot, even having an 8.30 start time for the third game would make it a little easier.”
Understand the issue. We have also received feedback about how the games aren’t long enough. Noting the number of fields, available times and the number of teams wanting to play, this is the best we can come up with. We don’t believe we can shorten the games.
“Too big difference in team skill levels, top 4 Vs rest esp in div 2 and 3”
“Perhaps tighter monitoring of pick ups and quality of pick ups. Especially during finals when teams are being classified for the next season. Some teams vary extremely from week to week in terms of overall ability.”
“I know it is hard, but perhaps limiting numbers of experienced (ie Worlds or Div 1 Nationals) players on Div2/Div3 teams might be an idea to avoid stacked and one sided games even if teams are relegated.”
Fundamentally as soon as we start limiting who can play on which team, you create a bundle of issues, like “what about a player who wants to mentor some new players?” That begets more rules. Standards are really hard to define (see our attempt here
), and even harder to get people to self assess. Likewise there are huge issues in monitoring pick-ups that are arranged just before games. We prefer to allow anyone to play in any division, and allow teams to manage their own pick-ups. Apart from anything else, the admin would be immense, would require more staff and increase costs. Pick-ups in the finals week should not make a difference to promotion and relegation because those have been decided by regular season results.
Limiting to One Division
“Dislike not being able to play mutliple divisions. 1 short game that is often of poor quality isn’t fun.”
“Would still like to see an option for males/females to play in more than one division. Very well run given barriers we face at this time though.”
We know. We also hear from people who dislike not being able to play at all. Removing 30 odd players playing twice has meant 30 more people can play. This is a problem with limited field space unfortunately. UV has asked us to maximise access
to everyone. Defining a standard for a limited set of people to qualify to play multiple divisions is an issue too. As to the quality of the games, to a large extent that is controlled by the players.
Number of Women
“It is super hard to find women to play now that they can only play in 1 division, if teams don’t make the league, would be great to find out who those people are so we can chat to them and try to get them into teams.”
“With many teams struggling to find women and having an excess of men ( especially at Div 2/Div 3 level), I explore organisers not to switch to Gender Rule A as it only disadvantages lower teams in many cases. Div 1 could work. Simple matter is more guys want to play Ultimate than women.”
“I think moving to the ratio rule a will make some teams struggle for females especially on some nights when girls are low”
“Also I feel that the rule against players playing multiple division is making it difficult to recruit women. I’ve spoken to a few other clubs who have found it difficult to recruit women too. If we want to improve women playing into friz it’s good for them to be coached in Div 3, but that’s not possible if all of our strong players are in Div 1… I think this rule should be relaxed for women. “
We understand the issue. When the Monday night club format was set up in 2001, a decision was made to play 4-3 offence choice. That was regarded as a crazy decision as the Wednesday league was generally 5-2, 6-1 or even 7-0. Giving the space to women to play is important in encouraging participation; it was hugely successful in encouraging women’s Ultimate in Victoria. While it is hard, we stand by the decisions to make the league more equal. We’d encourage everyone to find more women, and for every women’s club to support their players in claiming that space.
Great idea to gradually introduce the gender rule, suggestions as to how best to accomplish that welcome.
“Single team fees would make my life incredibly hard. I don’t have $1300 to hand out of the start of the season. Our team is primarily uni students and money doesn’t come quickly. The grace period of how many weeks for individual players to pay was very handy.”
Please discuss reasons for delay in payment with Khanh or Raph. Hardship issues are taken on board, allowing more time for payments to be completed.
“The UV site often doesn’t work for PayPal payment on mobile.”
We don’t have any control on this. We believe UC is moving away from PayPal soon.
“Perhaps there could be a cap for how much each team pays? I am from a smaller team therefore would be penalised if payment changed to per team rather than per player. However I understand that larger teams may be better off. Maybe there should be individual payments with a cap of how much payment an be made per team so that no one is significantly adversely effected by any changes?”
Understand the issue. We could also point out that you are in effect paying for the field space to play seven players on for seventy minutes per week, regardless of your team size. If/when we move to team payments the cost will reflect this: happy to take feedback on whether the average team cost or some other measure should be used.
Pick-ups and New Players
“Is there an option for a draft for players who want to play but don’t know/can’t find a team? I’ve wanted to play for a few seasons but options are limited because I don’t know any teams.”
Generally we encourage people to use the Facebook group to announce their availability. At the moment that’s the best we can offer.
“Create a space similar to this one for Windmill (http://windmilltournament.com/signup/pickup) for players to show that they are looking for a team and/or team looking for players – Allowing for better networking and less recruitment clutter on the group.”
Will look into doing so, thanks!
“Pick up rules make team management harder than they need to be”
Agreed: this is one reason why we are exploring team registration. We are trying to make this easy for everyone while encouraging the greatest number of people to play.
“Get rid of MVPs – they are not necessary”
“MVP voting is a joke – most of the time you don’t know your opponents’ names, let alone 3 of them. Also, it’s rare that an MVP is actually the ‘most valuable player’ – the most points goes to the most ‘spectacular’, or whoever did one visible thing good at the end of the game. The next two are the others the oppnents know by name, not necessarily most valuable. It’s a waste of time for admins and should either be changed or just removed all together.”
“MVP points are not working. Players who don’t take the field are getting points because opposition captains aren’t familiar with players.”
We hear you. People have expressed a desire in the past to have MVPs as it gives individuals something to play for. We will look into changes.
“If half time is removed, I think at least 2 time outs per game should be allowed for a potential break/team chat.”
“If games are only 70 minutes hard capped then the points cap should be adjusted to suit as should half time (ie first to 13 or 14, half at 7) or maybe even 12, half at 6. It allows for matches to perhaps make half so it is not decided on toss so much.”
Also good point.
“Keep rego simple and the rules simple. Don’t over complicate league”
We are trying!
“Communication is pretty good compared to the past. The multiple avenues for communication means missing info is unlikely.”
“Communication is fantastic and when things occur in the 11th hour (lightning cancelling div 3 games) communication was still as quick as possible”
Thanks. Please let us know if there is are any new mediums/avenues that people would like announcements on. Always looking to improve.
“For some reason, don’t always see the apl fb posts. I see the emails though.”
Ah Facebook… Unfortunately, like everyone, we have no control over how Facebook presents information.
“APL is doing a good job communicating – utilising the FB page and APL website. One thing I would like is more communication about frisbee training events in the area/organised by other clubs etc”
Understand, but it’s not our job. We’re just trying to concentrate on APL.
“more notice of games would be good”
“Need to know schedule for first week earlier – even just the timeslots”
We try to get that out as quickly as possible. Sometimes we are delayed by resolving field or division issues, such as what happened in Season 1 when we didn’t know which fields we’d have access to until late. Sometimes our other lives just get in the way…
“Communication regarding the games after the regular season has ended has been difficult. I rely on the email sent on Friday/Saturday and the UC calendar sync for correct game times. What’s the reason these games were not added to the calendar or sent via email? Other than that I really appreciate the calendar syncing option, it’s very helpful.”
We thought they were added online, and notification was sent through the usual announcement system (website, Facebook, Twitter, mailing lists). We try not to use the UC email system as there have been issues with delays in emails getting out. This could be an issue with UC so we’ll send a bug report if we can work out what happened.
“Despite what Facebook comments say, you guys are doing a great job and people don’t appreciate that enough. Keep it up!”
Thank you everyone for the positive comments! 🙂